Holy Sigmar, Why Have You Forsaken Us?


Post Entry Note: There actually a pretty good arguement taking place in the comments. I know that I generally miss a great deal of the wall text in comments on blogs. But the comments here are between two bloggers and each entry is almost worthy of blog post on their own. I would say its worth reading them for entertainment value if nothing else. 

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We just don’t know how to help you, Mythic. You are clearly self-destructive. It comes down to that. You make a drastic, drastic changes (nerf) essentially overnight and then leave for holiday break? What exactly do you expect to come back to in January? Did you have too many subscribers and it was more of a burden on the servers then it was worth in value?

Warrior Priest and Disciples are by far the most played classes of any. Short of a few exceptions, WP are almost completely composed of healing spec only, and DoKs aren’t too far away.

Your constant lack of testing and your blunt and drastic changes to a key mechanic, not only of the class but of this game for the last 2 years has now been taken out of the mix, is this time seriously going to cost you. You cannot simply nerf a key mechanic overnight and expect them not to FLIP THE FUCK OUT!

Combat and Careers

Disciple of Khaine
  • Khaine’s Embrace: The base healing value of this ability has been reduced and its cooldown has been removed.
  • Khaine’s Vigor: The base healing value of this ability has been increased and its duration has been reduced. 
Warrior Priest
  • Pious Restoration: The base healing value of this ability has been increased and its duration has been reduced.
  • Touch of the Divine: The base healing value of this ability has been reduced and its cooldown has been removed. 


It’s actually just mind-blowing. What the hell happened to this:

“All we have are our group heals, our single target healing is non-existent, so why are you doing this to my career?

In the future, we will give better single target options for “back-line” healing Disciples of Khaine and Warrior Priests. Actually, we have a couple of ideas to help single target healing in general and we’ll discuss that in the future. “

I guess I must have been out of my mind. When I read this, I like everyone else, thought these changes are in OVERALL thought and developement.

And really, it doesn’t matter. You have but a very, very small window of complete nerd rage on the forums, to which you can either act fast to remedy and save subscriptions, or you can see how it goes while subscription start mysteriously disappearing.

You could have been somewhat mindful to what you are doing to the class and at least refunded us our renown and mastery points in the patch today. I’m sure many of us need to do some re-specing. Maybe we can try to find a new place in our groups before our subscription period runs out.

 

Anyways, in other news:

There apparently was a ninja release of an amazing MMO last month. I didn’t even know it was on the radar. And apparently, neither did much of the MMO community. Perpetuum Online went live on the 25th of November and has already made it in the top 5 of MMO releases this year. I would say that’s a pretty big ‘to do’, considering it was developed by a 10 man team. To the reviews that I can find, I’m seeing constantly seeing the same thing. It’s being described as EVE, but now we have a chance. It’s apparently lawsuit worthy by CCP it’s mechanic and game play are so close. And consistently, I’m seeing people comment on how they are yet to find a bug. Which to me is the most mind-boggling thing ever. An MMO without a bug? Well, it was the most, until I read Mythic’s Hot Fix today, then it was the second most mind-boggling thing.

With no box to buy and a $10 subscription, I have a stong intuition what client will be downloading first on my computer tonight.

 

I’m sure I’ll log onto my WP and DoK tonight sometime before I cancel my renewal cycle,

Don't you dare try to steal this very very official signature.

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6 thoughts on “Holy Sigmar, Why Have You Forsaken Us?

  1. Working as intended.

    Seriously, how else are they supposed to nerf the healing WP’s without nerfing them? I’m really not surprised they did it like this, it’s how they roll man.

    I can’t wait to see the fallout from TTK dropping so drastically as what was essentially the only healer in the game getting neutered. Maybe they’ll start working on that balance as well.

    You know, next year. Maybe.

    • Well yeah I expected a Group Heal nerf to be that, a nerf, but … I don’t know … I’m so shell shocked still… I guess it is kind of stupid to think anything but this was going to happen.

      Oh well.

  2. I know you are a WP/DoK man, Mr. Meh, but I certainly didn’t expect you to overreact to this extent. Have you logged into your characters? Have you gone out and RvRed? Have you looked at it with a critical eye?

    Cause it sure isn’t as bad as you are making it out to be. Yes WP healing needed to be toned down. It was. But lo and behold, WP is still the best group healer in any kind of a competitive RvR environment.

    And honestly I don’t think an overabundance of a class is a reason not to nerf it. We’ve all whined about Mythic’s indecision before. They’ve made a decisive move, and imho all is ok. Only if they throw some buffs to the clothie healers.

    • I really can’t honestly see how you think its okay.

      I mean, either you were just not the solidifier of your group as many of us were, or you don’t have another healer to realize just how gimp you are now. I invite you to quickly take an AM or RP to 40 real quick, and even at RR40, tell me why you would even touch your RR80 WP again.

      For me I always felt my RP and AM were always better healers. But in the overall scheme of being in a premade, I always better served my group being in the more defense based shell not mention the classes were always there for me.

      Also the term nerf is not being used right. When something is overpowered and its brought down to equal measurement of that to similar items, thats a nerf. When you completely make something useless, thats called stupidity. When you completely make something useless and it happened to be the only point of that mechanic, its called grounds for massive loss in cash flow.

      I’m sorry dude. I just really really don’t even see close to eye to eye with you on this. It’s really quite disappoiting to hear from another WP/DOK. And if you read my other post, you’ll see that I have as best as possible looked at this with a very critical eye.

      To argue it was a good move by Mythic, without community testing, with implimentation in a Hot Fix without following through on promised overhauls to other mechanics, to not even address the fact that you gimping a broken melee heal mechanic by making it at best a HoT bot, is completely unacceptable.

      I’m not argueing that something didnt’ needed to be done. It did. I’m argueing that you, Mythic promised to make us what we were supposed to be, melee heals, was not even adressed. Wow a group HoT is somewhat working again, does not make the reduction in GH to half the amount acceptable in any shape or form?

      It was a lazy lazy lazy LAZY move. You impliment that change when you have an overall answer to the overhaul to the class that is needed.

      “WP is still the best group healer in any kind of a competitive RvR environment.”

      You either have the worst AM and RP even known to play the game on your server, or you have no idea that its not your Group heals doing that.

      • My first healer character was a Runepriest. I got him to RR65 and then tried the WP. I immediatelly realised that the WPs can perform the role of a healer much better than the RP, for the reasons of survivability, AoE nature of the heals, sustainability, short cast times and additional utility (some of it on par with the RP). The only things RP had over the WP was mobility and (in a suitable environment) single target healing. So I rerolled, because I like to do a job well. I tried healing with the RP several times after that, but I got frustrated because things that were easy on WP were difficult and awkward on the RP.

        I don’t think you can see clearly through this “adjustment” because of personal attachment to melee healers, which is understandable. Noone likes being made less powerful, just as being powerful usually isn’t perceived as such unless you have the opportunity to compare it with something. I’m not saying you’re a whiner here, just to be clear, as many other players are not (some are), just that there are certain facts that render you unable to be objective.

        I agree that the adjustment should have been made public ealier (or the change held off for longer) and give the players a chance to try it out for themselves. But I can understand why Mythic did it the way they did. It was certain that the change would be seen overly negatively by the WP/DoK community no matter what it was. Those two classes have enjoyed their status quo for quite a long time and it’s always harder to break up a long streak than a shorter one.

        As far as I know Mythic did test it internally (with core testers) and although this doesn’t mean much it seems that pushing this live rather than waiting for the outcry worked for them. I don’t know if it would have worked a second time and it’s not pleasant to experience, but I’ll always take a small change that can be tested on live and quickly reversed, over months of waiting, testing and whining that clouds the judgement and waters down the actual adjustments (see Magus/Engineer changes).

        Melee healers (backline healing) are still the solidifiers of the group, as you say. As a WP I provide a constant stream of AoE heals that stabilise the health of the group. They serve as a padding to enable single target healers to keep people up. Against AoE I can hold the health steady or at least stall the death for the other healer to cast their long AoE heals (that will not only counter but surpass the AoE damage) or if the other healer is a WP he can act as the “topper”.

        What WPs/DoKs had was sustainable spike healing on a short cast together with survivability, that could compete with other careers single target healing. That left other healers with no role to fill.

        What they have now is sustainable healing on a short cast together with slightly diminished survivability. The players can and should adjust to all other indirect changes (increased RF cost, decreased mobility) rather easily. (That’s concerning the WP, the DoK I hear is having issues with SE which can be easily resolved with mirroring Smite to EL, which hopefully Mythic will do in the near future.)

        This leaves other healers with a role to fill, which is single target (or even AoE) spike healing. The WP has traditionally been thought as a “supporting” healer that works well with other healers. Through the patch cycles this has changed and the best combination became two of the melee healers, with a minor loss to utility. After this change WPs/DoKs might have lost the ability to keep up a group by themselves, but they are still needed in groups to account for the weakneses of other healers and work together with them.

        I regularly run in guild warbands, which are among the most organised and competitive ones on the server and take part in guild premade scenarios. Here is what the guild at large thinks of the changes (this is with the usual 2/2/2 group setup we run most of the time):

        – Double WP healing cover in warbands is still viable, but the critical mass AoE damage is now lower. As a result the survivability of the warband has gone down against overwhelming numbers (1.5/2 WB against us). As this has occured on both sides this is thought of as the general TTK decrease (possibly to the one pre-CQ nerf).
        – Non-WP healers are still not as viable in warband play.
        – The mobility of the WPs has decreased.
        – RF is not an issue.
        – In scenario play double WP healing cover is viable but has a bigger weakness to single target assist trains compared to pre-nerf. A RP/AM (preferably RP) supplementing the healing eliminates this weakness.
        – The loss of utility with double WP cover is still negligible.

        Above observations are mine and those of my guildies. They are the rammifications the patch has had on me, guildie WPs and my guild. We are eagerly awaiting the changes to the RP/AM.

        I wrote the above to show you that I am not alone in this thinking. Though the uniqueness of my, my guild’s, server’s and region’s viewpoint is a factor and needs to be taken into account, I still think you are over-reacting.

      • I don’t know your guild, or your server. But I do know the competitiveness of Gorfang and the rampaging Scenario battles that define the best of the best. Unfortunately, of those in the classes in question that have been for the nerf on that server, are players I would describe as … terribad, or undoubtably the worst to ever figure out how to log in to the game. So when I see their, ‘kodus’ for this change, it unfortnately tells me that we are boned.

        In my guild and those that I know, are not happy but are stuggling with the new group organization. We have figured out how to heal in this aspect, but we no longer will accept double DOK/ or double WP for a scenario group, short of desperation. You need burst healing to survive a premade. There is no premade out there that isn’t focusing. You need a RP/Zeal. In many cases its actually better to take a Shammy/AM to retain the burst group heal.

        My problem with this ‘adjustment’ is obviously the first part of the change. However, it is also the downside of the change. I’m not saying that it’s wrong or a bad move in a broad change. But the arguement is, there’s not much in healing the WP/DOK has going for it. Hence the GH buff back in ealry 2009. So to admittably make the nerf, knowing its a nerf and to hold the other changes in the backdrop waiting, is inexcusable.

        “All we have are our group heals, our single target healing is non-existent, so why are you doing this to my career?

        In the future, we will give better single target options for “back-line” healing Disciples of Khaine and Warrior Priests. Actually, we have a couple of ideas to help single target healing in general and we’ll discuss that in the future. ”

        To me is clear admission to knowing this. So when I see a mass exodus, or as many wave aways as we have seen on the forums, I understand why.

        Which is the point of the post. Change was needed, overall change was needed. You either needed to fix melee heals, or you needed to admit it wasn’t possible and revamp the WP/DOK. To make such a change alone, is a good way to lose subscriptions. And as much as I appreciate your shared feeling, in ‘who cares what a QQer thinks?’ They are a great size of players. And this game has suffered greatly from mass losses before due to unexpected changes without communication. It cant survive too many more.

        Here you have had almost every key WAR player in the Beta for RIFT over the past couple of weekends. Short of RIFT PvP sucking after the next closed BETA installment, WAR dies on it’s release. If WAR would like to survive it needs to … I don’t know … not piss off everyone. Changes are welcome and accepted. It does not excuse lazy lazy nerfs that fail to address the overall brokeness of the classes.

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